Mice & Mystics Final Thoughts

Mice & Mystics Final Thoughts

Hey right final thoughts time for mice and mystics oh you dog see oh I guess some I do I’ll do a good event and the other kind of thing or what do we like what we don’t like about the game so first of all the positives I mean this storytelling in this game is superb this is a lovely suite I thought is nobody turned in charming this is a little charming charming game just charms the socks off of you with these cute adorable little mice and ano facing down vile rats and all that and I’m you know they’re very plucky underdog heroes and they’re on an epic quest to save the world and they’ll they all have unique personalities and you know the writing is actually uniformly very nice you know everybody has a really unique voice and and the storyline is integrated really beautifully really wonderfully into the actual gameplay you know as you saw in the extended playthrough we know when I went to the kitchen and all the unique changes to the mechanisms of the core game you know the core combat system all these new things to get layered in based on what the story calls for they’re great and there’s a ton of these throughout the game really clever inventive things that make every new room you go to well no that’s always true sometimes the room is just a combat room you just got to get through it but there are so many times like you get in you read the story and you read a little snippet and the own and they they they’re there they were coil in horror or whatever it is and then you set up the special and the new rules or play it’s like wow that is so clever and that is by far the best thing about this game is why I said right up front I really didn’t want to do spoilers but I thought it was essential to show just how cool the storytelling is in this game and how brilliantly brilliantly it integrates with with the game mechanisms top-notch stellar stellar stuff you all better than the sense better than myth better really better than you know right up there with legends of and/or quite frankly in that regard so really really liked that a lot um let’s see and oh I think the this the system for initiative where your DNA count everybody you rope you uh shuffle the cards and you find out who’s going to be first who’s going to be last that can have big implications like you saw how Colin he wants to be in a particular if he’s up front he gets powers if he’s behind gets powers he has powers to manipulate that bad guys can manipulate it I love how sometimes bad guys like you saw Brody has multiple cards on here so they have multiple attacks sometimes right next to each other sometimes they’re spread around really really clever system very very nice I like it a lot very sharp very smart and you deal those cards out you’re really excite about how is it going to work out because the order things happening can have a big impact on how you play another brilliant brilliant thing and um there you go that’s all you know I love the the initiative system love the storytelling both world-class triple-a stuff now to get into the stuff Jenna I don’t like the rest unfortunately I got to say there are several things that kind of turn us off about this game and now I got a preface this by saying I am fully aware that these things I’m about to complain about a lot of people say what do you talk about it’s great I mean some people act if you think it’s cool that these things are in the game or at the very least say yeah that doesn’t really matter and so bear in mind these complaints I have you know they might not be applicable to you at all you might not be bothered by the one way or the other but let’s see for starters Jen and I really don’t like the the concept of you know we only ever play two players and what we want to do is we want to have two characters or I’m sorry one character each you know that’s the character you know who we come to grow and you know and know and love and nurture and level up and you know we want to feel like that is our avatar in the world and we can put ourselves in the the paws of that little mouse scurrying around trying to fight for survival because that’s us and you know that’s who we become attached to and all that and we find for ourselves I know a lot of people don’t share this view and that’s totally cool you know horses for courses etcetera cetera but we find horse horses what the British stick oh by the way I don’t think Americans say that you know anyway sorry sorry Tilly is inside we feel like when we have to control two characters retain and subchapters three characters each because six mice are on the board we have to yo-yos are controlling three we suddenly we don’t feel like that character anymore then we feel like we are a general controlling a battlefield looking down from above you know statistically choosing and now now that’s something that has a potential to happen anyway because you know Jen I we have to work in tandem we have to work cooperative tactical distance that happens um and that is only exacerbated by the fact that we don’t have our character we are controlling two characters and therefore we don’t feel like we have that same you know what some people say is well you can just pretend one of those is your characters and the other one is their followers so you really but it just doesn’t work for us it’s a subjective thing I know it doesn’t bother a lot of people you know arguably it makes the game more interesting because we have more to think about we have more tactics and strategies to plan but we find it less than ideal that we have to control multiple characters that right there kills the game ports and I thought it might not I have to admit I knew that that was going to be the case but I thought it might not bond me this game because the argument in favor of it is this is a story driven game you have chapters where Colin and ill and Madge knows have to be in the party because the story requires that they be there because they have to do something big in that chapter they have to read the ancient tome of knowledge or whatever it might be so you know you can’t have a strong Lee story driven game where it’s always just the two characters we want in every chapter and I thought you know what I accept that that makes sense to me I end up so maybe that’ll be enough to help us get over it but then I was disappointed to find out that even as much as we love the story we think it’s brilliantly integrated um in almost every chapter like there’s the oh these are the four mice who are going to be in in a chapter we’re in you know and these are gents – and these are my two and no we’re reading a little story snippets that come along and suddenly it’ll say that and then Filch says it like Filch isn’t here why is filched talking we did not bring him on this adventure and yet time after time after time as we’re reading the story trying to say right we’re not a general we’re a storyteller we’re having a story ILO mmm no so and all that but then the deal the verisimilitude of that story is broken when the chapter snippets referring to characters who are not actually there and I that just drives me nuts I don’t understand why they are written that way and you know so I guy who got into the habit of like rewriting them on the fly so they would kind of fit but but like I said these characters have real voices and to suddenly have Filch talking in the way that Colin does it sounds very strange and it’s just like oh now this is a real I don’t understand why they did that in for a penny in for a pound as far as I’m concerned if you want to say you know what in this chapter it’s got to be this character if you want another character to say a line say that characters got to be there too because they just kind of drove enough again I have a lot of people aren’t gonna have a problem with that at all but I’m just pointing out stuff that bugged me and Jen so I know the storytelling in theory is going to be the thing that allowed us to get over our disdain for not for having to control multiple characters but it didn’t in part because I think it did not have narrative cohesiveness and I don’t understand why they didn’t because they could have written in a different way that would have had that problem sually so that’s one thing that bugs us and I think the other thing that bugs us is well the gameplay itself because you’ve seen it now this is the gameplay okay okay I’ll fart gonna move all right all right okay now how I got two hits they got to defense all right my turns over your turn all right well let me see how far I can move okay right let me move over and now let me unrolled see if I can get okay oh I didn’t get any hits all right now it’s their turn let’s see how far they can move okay he can move he can reach us now let’s have attack for him now let’s see how far he can move now let’s see yep you see where I’m going this game is a dice of Thawne of the highest order uh maybe it’s because of the rollin move maybe it’s because you have to roll a move for every single Ville on it but you know we get dice numb in this game it’s just non-stop and you know the excitement disappears after a while you know cuz dice should be a flavorful enhancement dice should be like salt for the gaming experience and that you know just adds like a little bit of extra sharpness a little bit of extra flavor but here this is like you know french fries completely drowned in salt it’s just salt salt salt everywhere it’s just like a nice little salt to enhance the potato flavor and for us it’s just too much dice rolling you know there is sometimes occasioning not always but occasionally some really interesting tactical situations we find ourselves in where we have to make smart decisions but those are so overwhelmed by the again this is for us I know a lot of people love it but for us the drudgery of non-stop infinite dice rolling it just it’s too much and now maybe we won’t be bothered by it if these adventures could be completed and say maybe a half an hour you know a half an hour of non-stop dice rolling that’s okay but on average these adventures these chapters you don’t through there upwards of two hours long they’re very very long two hours of non-stop roll roll roll roll roll roll it’s just too much for us and so that plus the fact that we’re not getting to you’ll really get a sense of connection with our characters we get a sense of connection to the story that’s great but we don’t feel we ourselves kind of go into the world and then that and just infinite dice rolling means on the whole as much as the this game has really strong points it’s not enough for me again so you know it was not kind of the descent killer that Jen and I were hoping for maybe it’ll be myth I’ll be doing a run-through for that soon watch this channel but in the meantime I think we would never play this over legends of and or which is still at this point our high-water mark for board game adventuring because that game it do dice is a big deal by oh you roll dice but in that game I mean it’s it’s – it’s 20% dice and 80% strategy and tactics in this game it’s the reverse it’s 20% strategy and tactics and 80% dice and now that’s fine if you’re looking for that and I can surely see a lot of people love it because this game has a lot of admirers um then it’s great you know what you’re getting into but for me and Jen we like the ratio to go the other way we don’t mean to cast aspersions we totally understand why other people love the drama and love you know what’s gonna happen you know I mean obviously people love going to Vegas and rolling those dice on you know the the craps table so I get that it’s just not for me and Jed and that’s why unfortunately as for all its wonderful wonderful elements for us it’s a near-miss hopefully you can decide for yourself based on what you’ve seen if it’s a hit or miss for you but that’s it folks mice and mystics um any comments questions concerns as always let me know and I’m sure I made a few goofs I mean I remember I forgot I was searching when I should be able to search I forgot I had special abilities that I could use you know that’s no problem to as this game goes on and on and you get more and more abilities and you’re controlling two or three characters at a time and each character has three special abilities and then special abilities on their weapons and then they’ve got more weapons they’ve gotten their pack this game gets very unwieldy if you’re having to control more players I know some people say it’s not that much for problem but again for me and Jim we felt it was a big time choice to go back on God we felt it was a bit too much there’s another reason we don’t like controlling so many characters because in this game as it gives longer and longer your characters get very complex very ridged with a lot of options for what they can do and again it was a bit too much for us anyway so that’s it folks thanks for watching comics question concerns as always let me know otherwise have a very very nice day talk to you later bye bye


  1. Coming from Pathfinder and DnD this looks like a quick dose of fun. Also, it seem like my kids both just turned 7 could play this with little to no help at all.  This is going to be a must buy for me.  That said, I'm going to take a look at Legends of Andor for my regular play group. 
    Thank Rahdo.

  2. Can't argue with your gameplay assessment. But for kids, it's fantastic. It's easy enough for them to make decisions. They love having extra characters which is a plus. As long as you have an adult to actually run the game, then it's great as a family game.

  3. Thanks for the runthrough, but you pretty much summed up my perception of the game: a kids' game at a premium price point. As you were playing, I kept wishing you would pan over to Istanbul and mess with that instead. MiWi seemed to like it and I think I do, too. (Need that Rahdo Seal of Approval!)

  4. May I recommend Tales of the Arabian Nights?  I suspect you will not feel a need for another story teller after that…

  5. Many people (even excellent game reviewers such as yourself!) fall into the trap of believing that luck and skill are mutually exclusive. They believe that there is a slider with luck on one end and skill on the other, so the more luck a game has, the less skill it has.

    This is not actually true though. Luck and skill are two separate sliders, each of which can independently be hight or low. Tic-tac-toe is low luck and low skill. Snakes and Ladders is high luck and low skill. Chess is low luck and high skill. Poker is high luck and high skill.

    Mice and Mystics is high luck and high skill. Players who prefer low-skill games will not enjoy it, because they will find it requires too much thinking and too much effort. Players who prefer low-luck games will not enjoy it either, because they will feel frustrated by the lack of control.

    Check out this talk by Richard Garfield. Apparently he's a guy who knows one or two things about game design. 😉
    Magic TV: Extra – Dr. Richard Garfield on "Luck Versus Skill" (Magic Cruise 2012)

  6. Thanks for the review!
    What I love most about Mice & Mystics: It's a perfect rpg-gateway game for kids.

  7. I agree with the too much dice rolling.  I have been tempted to just pick permanent move numbers for each hero's and villain's to remove some rolling.

  8. Thanks for this, Richard. Great information as always. Cooled my giddiness for this a bit, although I'm still excited. How would it play with three people – does everyone get an individual character then?

  9. way to many of these adventure dungeon crawls games force you to play multiple characters I know exactly how you feel.

  10. Don't mean to sound negative but why do you even review ameritrash games? you never like them or keep them.

  11. Watching these final thoughts just made me feel like I was getting yelled at by a stressed out, angry person for 10 minutes.

  12. Just picked this game up today. Very excited to play it! The extended gameplay convinced me to get it. Can't wait to play this single player 😀 Thanks, Richard!

  13. I would think of it as playing any rpg on a counsel. You battle with the characters you want and when it goes to the story. it shows what ever characters are written in.

  14. I plan on house ruling the movement. Giving every character a +3 movement( value on character car +3) . Make it a roll to change.

  15. Basically, there was nothing at all wrong with the game that a little imagination couldn't solve. Cool.

  16. Need some advice/suggestions. The wifey, who leans towards lighter fare (Carcassonne, Catan, TicketToRide) has been requesting a D&D style board game. Is this a good choice, or is there something better you could recommend?

  17. I just want to balance out some of the points rhado makes in the video.

    When it comes to choices for actions..

    I think rhado forgot to mention the search deck and the ability cards. Yes there is a lot of luck when it comes to dice rolling during combat but there are a lot of tactical decisions to be made when spending cheese to use an ability. Your ability cards help enhance your attack especially when battling numerous minions and larger enemies. Also people forget that you can purchase new abilities to use when your mouse has 6 cheese. Sharing your stash of cheese and items within your party is also strategic for winning. For example our group often uses tilda to heal and maginos to perform ranged attacks and lightning chain attacks.

    One point I think should be made in terms of tweaking the rules of the game is that a mouse's lore should have been integrated into the battle system somehow by the designer… such as being used to modify dice rolls to reduce the luck factor and increase the skill factor. Also the game could have added some sort of battle card element to it to vary the combat mechanism a bit.

  18. As something somewhat unrelated to Mice and Mystics, but related to your final thoughts: Me and my brother prefer playing MAGE KNIGHT 2 characters each, I wonder what you think about that…. 😛

  19. Hmm… I should have watched this before buying. I was deciding between this, Andor, and Arcadia Quest (different gameplay, perhaps only superficially similar). Oh well, I'll be getting all three in due time.

  20. If you like dungeon crawlers, you'll love this game. In my opinion it is (currently) the best Dungeon Crawler out there. Don't let the theme fool you… this game does not pull any punches.

  21. Salt salt salt haha

    I was thinking of getting this game but the dice and roll seemed very repetitive and you think the same too…. hmmmm

  22. Yeah, the game relies way too much on dice rolling as a mechanism. That sucks, the storytelling aspect and artwork sound and look amazing, but the dice rolling kills it.

    It almost seems like the core game mechanisms were an afterthought to the storytelling.

  23. 1:52 Definitely not its good game but if one would have to pick to role play powerful heroes or mouses, its definitely lack the mood as for complexity Descent is way above this game. Its good one but could have been done better.
    To compare this to legends of Andor is bad joke, this is an explore kill game, Andor is a puzzle. (and way more entertaining one)
    3:06 the rest ?:D the rest a top game dos not have "what do we dont like? the rest" line 😀 a top game has minor mistakes like 0-2.
    8:05 I agree with this one strategy should be no more than 20% luck based. 9:04 nop not just for you I kinda got to the same conclusion regarding this.
    Luck based fixed(not many type or option what you can take as heroes) characters and not well made story. Sounds to me this is far from perfect or even weary good, it gets passing grade but its lack and could have been more.
    ~ thx for the review an game demonstration.

  24. 5:17 if that is a problem change to roues pretty simple you have both 1 extra action in each turn and play 2 characters.
    5:48 YES you can just switch the character names the story demands to player 1 or player 2, rules are guiding lines not mandatory burned to stone (and if they are good dark magicians know how to break the stone or bend the ink) GEEZ.

  25. Of all of the games, Mice and Mystics is the game he actually doesn't like. I don't watch every Rahdo review, but he seems to talk up just about every game I watch him review. Wow, the first real negative review I see, and to me came off almost angry, just amazes me. I really wish he would do negative reviews more often like this one, it would justify his opinion more with me. Otherwise, this is a great channel for runthroughs and rules play for myself and the wife, but his opinions on games, not so much.

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